Grim Dawn Revive Hc Character

Grim Dawn Revive Hc Character

The sprawling grim dark fantasy ARPG Grim Dawn has seen quite a few changes both to existing masteries and loots drops in recent patches, but also with the addition of whole new masteries in the latest expansions.
Grim Dawn Revive Hc Character
Grim Dawn Revive Hc Characters
Last time I posted something like this on Arcadelife was back in 2013 when I was playing Diablo 3, trying to get a hardcore character to the level cap. This time (with a lot less available time) I'm trying out the new Oathkeeper class/mastery in Grim Dawn's new expansion - Forgotten Gods, which was released. One good thing about Grim Dawn is that you have a chance to re-assign your skill points. This means that if you want to level up fast, you can first build your character for speed leveling during early game, then re-assign your skills later.
With those changes in mind, its time to update our guide to the best Grim Dawn builds. If you want to take a look, our previous version of the best buildstill has some solid tips if you want to try out a Warder character, although some of that info is now outdated.
Before diving into specific mastery combos and skill load outs, first let's clarify what we mean by 'best'. Our best builds have these qualities:
Less squishy and more survivable in most situations
High damage output potential
Ability to make it to later waves of Crucible or the Shattered Realm
Can tackle the sealed dungeons
Have the potential to defeat secret god boss Mogdrogen (with the right equipment and at level 85 - 100)
Up until the release of Forgotten Gods, one of the top damage dealing classes was easily the Cabalist (Necromancer + Occultist) with a focus on pets and chaos damage. Unfortunately, the latest patches have heavily nerfed chaos damage and items that boost chaos pet damage. 
While that's still a potentially viable build just for fun, we can't recommend it as an actual 'best' build anymore at this point. Instead, we're going to look at three classes focused on melee attacks, undead pet summoning, and poison / acid damage. Blizzard modern warfare beta download.
Ritualist (Shaman + Necromancer)

Based on personal play style preference, this is my current favorite build, although your mileage may vary if you don't care for melee combat or using a ton of pet summons.
Grim Dawn Revive Hc CharacterThere's a dual focus here, first on summoning creatures to keep the enemy busy, then on two handed weapon attacks with internal trauma damage. It may seem strange to have two caster classes focused on physical attacks, but trust me, it works wonders.
Internal trauma damage bypasses armor and continues dealing damage over time, making it very helpful with big tanky bosses. In terms of devotion points, Hammer gives you bonus internal trauma, while Shepherd's Crook is a must for the bonus to pets. Be sure to pick a devotion constellation tied to whatever 2 handed weapon type you end up using (Rhowan's Scepter gives a ton of internal trauma damage for maces).
What to play at the casino. The goal with this build is to always have 8 skeletons, a briarthorn, a blight fiend, and a primal spirit to thin out the enemy while you go to town with a 2 handed weapon.
Ritualist SkillsGrim Dawn Revive Hc CharactersBest online casino 2015. These are the preferred skills out for the Necromancer side:
Reaping Strike 10 (bonus main hand damage)
Necrotic Edge 12 (bonus default weapon damage)
Raise Skeletons 16
Undead Legion 12 (upgrades skeletons)
Will Of The Crypt 12 (upgrades skeletons)
Call Of The Grave 4 (upgrade all pets for limited time)
Summon Blight Fiend 16 
Rotting Fumes 1 (upgrades Blight Fiend)
Blight Burst 1 (upgrades Blight Fiend)
These are the preferred skills for the Shaman side:
Brute Force 12 (increase internal trauma damage with main attack)
Feral Hunger 10 (heal yourself on melee hits)
Summon Briarthorn 16 
Ground Slam 4 (upgrade Briarthorn)
Emboldening Presence 4 (upgrade Briarthorn)
Primal Bond 12 (additional internal trauma damage and upgrades pets)
Conjure Primal Spirit 6
Of course there are ways to tweak the skills if you want to focus more on pets than melee attacks, as Reaping Strike and Necrotic Edge can be swapped for maxing out the Blight Fiend and Briarthorn upgrade skills instead.
So long as you buy faction items or equip items that that increase poison resistance, you'll even do very well in the harder Ashes Of Malmouth content like the Ancient Grove sealed dungeon.
There are really only two main weaknesses to pay attention to here.
First up, the only place you are really going to struggle is with Father Kymon near the end of Forgotten Gods, who will be difficult to overcome with this build on epic and ultimate modes.
Since Kymon can one shot many players with melee hits, you want to stay far away and let your pets do the work, or equip an item that gives you an extra ranged power to use while you hide in the area's entrance.
Second, while this build will see you surrounded by a horde of pets, unfortunately it doesn't have quite enough summoning potential to actually unlock the Pet Hoarder achievement. unless you manage to find a significant number of loot drops that give you bonus summoning powers.
Dervish (Oathkeeper + Nightblade)As a brand new mastery, the player base is still trying to figure out the best secondary class and skill load out for the Oathkeeper, and many players are convinced only Soldier or Demolitionist are viable options.
They are dead wrong (at least for the moment before any future patches).
The Oathkeeper has excellent synergy with poison and acid when paired with the Nighblade mastery. To get the most use out of this build, obviously you are going to want to equip any items that increase your overall acid damage.
In terms of devotions, make sure you pick up Rat, Eye Of The Guardian, Scorpion, Manticore, Murmur, Abomination, and Yugol The Insatiable Night for maximum acid damage output. Ghoul also works well, since it gives you some healing while attacking capability for survival.
Dervish SkillsThese are the preferred skills out for the Oathkeeper side:
Righteous Fervor 16
Dreeg's Reproach 1 (converts physical damage to acid damage)
Consecration 12 (bonus attack speed and defense)
Retribution 5 (adds internal trauma damage)
Presence of Virtue 12 (bonus retaliation, bleed, and internal trauma damage)
Haven 2 (bonus health and shield block chance)
Rebuke 2 (bonus damage reflection)
Resilience 2 (increase resistance when low on health)
Ascension 2 (bonus to all damage for limited time)
Clarity of Purpose 2 (reduced debuff time and big resistance bonus)
Summon Guardian of Empryion 2
Scion of Dreeg 1 (convert Guardian's damage to acid)
Celestial Presence 12 (Guardian gains big acid damage bonus)
These are the preferred skills out for the Nightblade side:
Amastara's Blade Burst 16
Lethal Assault 12 (bonus acid damage)
Dual Blades 5
Belgothian Shears 3 
Nidalla's Hidden Hand 8 (bonus acid damage)
Shadow Strike 16 
Nadalla's Justifiable Ends 12 (bonus poison damage)
Veil of Shadow 10 
Night's Chill 10 (bonus resistances)
Merciless Repertoire 12 (big bonuses to acid and poison damage)
Switching between Amastara's Blade Burst and the Righteous Fervor attacks can result in crazy damage to just about any enemy as poison and acid eat away at health. Don't forget to summon your Guardian so he can also go out and perform area burst acid attacks!
The main downside here is a lack of crit percentage, but with how much poison, acid, bleed, and internal trauma damage you will be dealing, it isn't that much of a weakness.
For maximum damage output, don't forget to grab those Dreeg-focused faction items that add in additional poison/acid damage to whatever dual wielding weapons you are using.
Conjurer (Occultist + Shaman)A lot of the pet builds were sadly diminished with the Forgotten Gods expansion, but this one remains viable if you play it right.
A counterpoint to the Ritualist, this mastery combo is mostly about summoning creatures and letting them do the damage, while then lowering enemy resistances so your summons can tear at them with damage types like acid, cold, lightning, etc. https://nhdj.over-blog.com/2021/02/celebrity-voice-changer-website.html.
For devotion points, Ulzuin's Torch is a great idea that can be bound to any of your summon skills, as it eventually gives you the chance to randomly call down a high damage meteor swarm with any basic attack. Other than that, Behemoth, Jackal, and Rhowan's Crown are all critical for the bonuses to pets.
Finally, don't forget Modgrogen the Wolf, as the final star on that devotion constellation gives you Howl Of Mogrdogen for a big bonus to your pets.
Conjurer SkillsThese are the preferred skills out for the Occultist side:
Summon Familiar 16 
Storm Spirit 10 (grant area elemental attack to Familiar)
Bonds of Bysmiel 12 (big health and energy buff to all pets)
Manipulation 12 (big damage buff to all pets)
Summon Hellhound 16 
Curse of Frailty 5
Vulnerability 10 (greatly reduce enemy resistances)
Blood of Dreeg 16
Aspect of the Guardian 12
Dreeg's Evil Eye 6 (extra attack option for poison / acid damage)
Focused Gaze 1 (increase poison / acid damage)
These are the preferred skills out for the Shaman side:
Summon Briarthorn 16
Ground Slam 4
Emboldening Presence 12 (this is critical for upgrading your other pets)
Modgroden's Pact 4 (increased healing opportunities)
Heart Of The Wild 7 (extra health and resistance)
Oak Skin (retaliation damage)
Wind Devil 5
Raging Tempest 12 (Wind Devil deals cold damage and reduces elemental resistance)
Primal Bond 10 (bonus to all pets)
Conjure Primal Spirit 12
Your focus here is on getting as many pets on the screen as possible that all deal elemental damage, while you then use your Occultist abilities to lower the resistances of any enemies.
The main weakness is that your character won't be directly dealing a ton of damage, and of course you don't have a ton of defense. Just make sure to always be on the lookout for any equipment that gives pet bonuses, elemental damage bonuses, or debuffs the enemy.
Hataraku maou sama ova sub indo. ---
Want to see what builds other players have come up with? The Grim Dawn build compendium over in the game's official forums are a great place to start.
However, keep in mind that many of those builds revolve heavily around using very specific equipment, which you may not be able to get since loot is random.
You can also check out our other Grim Dawn guides here:
'
When GGG indicates in every single QA thread that they are happy with the penalty that indicates there will not be any changes.
Just fyi they did change it in the past from 15% to 10, they've already made it less punishing then it was, no need to push your luck any further. 
the thing is the simple system like this are punishing players on something that they cannot control such as lag or they happen to get caught in a 2 damage that 1 shot them. 
The current system punish the player but it did not encourage the player to get back out there tor regain their exp. 
If you actually read my exp pool regain suggestion, it only punish the glass cannon who are dying too much, not players who rarely die. That system punish player on death, but it also reward players to get back out there to get their exp back. 
that idea is actually come from an old MMO-RPG game called Anarchy Online. In that game if you die you lose the entire bar of your unsave exp. But in that game, player wouldnt care much about taking risk, doing risky boss because they knew can regain back later. I once lost 90% of my exp on a single dead, I couldnt care much because the next each monster I kill I will get 50% more exp as long I wont die too again until I got all my exp back. 
The current POE exp penalty system? I have seen many players quit because they died at 90+, lost hours of work just like that. The game punish you on death but it did not reward you for getting back into fight + survive without dying.

Exp penalty on 90+ is soo harmful that during maping, I end-up doing boss on my lvl 90 'yolo' ranger instead of my lvling 95 ranger who is obviously much stronger geared. But I still couldnt risk that there will be a small 5% chance 'wtf thing' that could kill me. 
So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. 
Posted by
Darkkrows
on Apr 14, 2016, 2:44:35 AM
The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches.
Posted by
Raudram
on Apr 14, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
' Hi guys!
I was thinking yesterday. what if there was a way to earn back a portion of the exp lost when we die? Like instead of losing 2 bars due to a lag spike (which im not complaining by any means, its just part of the game from time to time), what if we could run back to where we died and once we are either like within a close radius to our body or hit an item/object signaling that its our corpse, it would give us back like 75% of the exp we lost. 
10% seems like a moderately harsh penalty, and i'm only level 84. But being less than half a bar from leveling and then dc'ing to death, I just was thinking about it and wanted to share.
The other reason I mention it is because prior to me coming back to PoE the other week (was gone for a lil over a year, left midway through warbands I think), I had picked up the game Grim Dawn to see what it was, and they had this exact mechanic in it, and I actually loved it. Sadly though, the game has no actual endgame content (only 2 areas that you can repeatedly pretty much haha), so once you max out at level 85, you have to make a new char or switch games. There were actually some really cool mechanics inside Grim Dawn, and I think if PoE dev's reached out to Grim Dawn Dev's, they could work together to greatly improve some aspects of both games. I honestly feel like if PoE had Grim Dawn's atmosphere and combat feel, or Grim Dawn had PoE's type of endgame content, that game (the joining of two awesome ARPGs) would be like the Neo of ARPG's. It would truly be, the chosen one. 
What do you guys think? :) all positive and/or negative feedback is appreciated!! cheers and have an awesome day gents 

Think what it is like at level 93! :P
Honestly, the penalty is a barier that keeps you from leveling higher, than you skill allows you to. The better you get, the higher you can push your character. Lags, crashes and DCs are a thing, sadly. :v 
There is no way to detect if you died to your own error, or DC/lag, so it sadly needs to punish in both cases. It is what it is, and so far nobody came up with a system which has the same function (the barrier one) but at the same time removes the annoying lag/dc deaths. 
Also, keep in mind that not all of the content is meant to be done easily. If you want kill that one map-boss, that everyone skips (durp, Village Ruin), go for it. It creates some diversity, players have to chose, instead of taking a map, shoving it down the map device, and rolling it like every other map. 
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
 Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
 https://joeduncan123.imgur.com
 https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com
Posted by
Perq
on Apr 14, 2016, 12:53:55 PM
Its quite funny to me some of these responses from people.
' A temp SC league without death penalties or some way to gain XP back would probably be a worthwhile experiment. It seems that at least in these forums the majority of SC players would prefer to play without penalties.

Howso, considering like I've said they are happy with the penalty, what feedback are they going to get or whats the purpose of doing a league just to get confirmation on what the fact they are happy with it. Plus this no longer fits the idea that the temp SC league is identical to the temp HC league.
The forums are a terrible gauge of what players want. The people that are likely vocal here are always going to be the ones more likely to complain about something then they are to say 'im happy with it'
' From my experience talking to people, all the penalty does is demoralize new players since it's linked to bad mechanics such as oneshots.

This again is false, new players aren't getting 'punished' hard for their deaths because it only really becomes punishing in later levels, when they have had time to learn some of the game mechanics, like res, life, ect.
Death should be something you avoid in all ARPG style games, because its an indication of an issue, either low life, low res, low dps or misplay. Yes sometimes there are issues outside of the players control, but you cant balance for those one off very rare things, if they could they could revive HC characters on deaths as well, but they don't.
' the thing is the simple system like this are punishing players on something that they cannot control such as lag or they happen to get caught in a 2 damage that 1 shot them. 

And this is partly likely why they reduced it from 15>10. That being said they did make massive improvements to the desync issue and introduced a method to basically bypass the issue altogether. In terms of other general lag issues, you can't balance the game for issues outside of the realm of the norm.
' The current system punish the player but it did not encourage the player to get back out there tor regain their exp. 

Nor should it, the game in general is punishing, your incentive to level is already there. I thought long ago back when these discussions were more common a way to recover XP would be a nice idea, but after the changes to map XP and the general power creep the players have gotten (as well has the lockstep changes) all makes this unnecessary.
' If you actually read my exp pool regain suggestion, it only punish the glass cannon who are dying too much, not players who rarely die. That system punish player on death, but it also reward players to get back out there to get their exp back. 

Right so it allows for careless play as long as you haven't been careless and punished for it 'recently' Its just essentially free deaths as long as you aren't doing it very often.
' The current POE exp penalty system? I have seen many players quit because they died at 90+, lost hours of work just like that. The game punish you on death but it did not reward you for getting back into fight + survive without dying.

And if they quit instead of improving then they aren't 'poe material' anyway. Not a big loss. I don't quit when I lose a hc character, which is far more punishing then 10% XP. I really don't need to hear excuses about how a SC player quit after he died once.
' Exp penalty on 90+ is soo harmful that during maping, I end-up doing boss on my lvl 90 'yolo' ranger instead of my lvling 95 ranger who is obviously much stronger geared. But I still couldnt risk that there will be a small 5% chance 'wtf thing' that could kill me. 

Its always a play where you could have a character just to kill bosses, funny enough I did actually do this for a while, not because I cared about the XP loss but because it had very high single target DPS. In terms of risking the characters XP for the one off thing, the more you learn the game the less likely you are to die to the random things that can kill you. I would say boss fights are a perfect example of not having as much randomness to them.
' So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. 

I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something?
' The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches. 

Yeah just like all HC characters skip anything that can kill them too s
In terms of not learning because they never do it, there are many options to learn the mechanics outside of the risky hard map style 'test' People can watch videos to see the fights, people can encounter the higherharder maps in zana maps. People can run bluewhite maps instead of rares to learn.
In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficientsafe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
 FeelsBadMan
 I will not rest until fortify+pure movement skill no longer works. It has plagued this game for too long. (salt, salt everywhere)
Posted by
goetzjam
on Apr 14, 2016, 4:09:15 PM
' In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficientsafe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably. 

I noticed the same, I don't skip stuff, unless I absolutely can't deal with it but I would rather sell T14+ for a hefty amount of chaos orbs than run them, the EXP/loot rewards aren't that great.
Posted by
Raudram
on Apr 14, 2016, 4:41:00 PM
'' In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficientsafe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably. 

I noticed the same, I don't skip stuff, unless I absolutely can't deal with it but I would rather sell T14+ for a hefty amount of chaos orbs than run them, the EXP/loot rewards aren't that great. 

I mean you can still get the nice bases to sell and still have a better chance at higher maps inside of a higher map (because obviously your not going to get a T13-15 in an 11, unless a rare +box and magic happens)
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
 FeelsBadMan
 I will not rest until fortify+pure movement skill no longer works. It has plagued this game for too long. (salt, salt everywhere)
Posted by
goetzjam
on Apr 14, 2016, 5:25:52 PM
'' So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. 

I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something? 

Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content.
Posted by
Deleted
on Apr 14, 2016, 9:39:38 PM
''' So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. 

I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something? 

Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content. 

I mean the only strongboxes that really kill are ones that you refuse to move out of the way of, like ice nova and poison cloud.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
 FeelsBadMan
 I will not rest until fortify+pure movement skill no longer works. It has plagued this game for too long. (salt, salt everywhere)
Posted by
goetzjam
on Apr 14, 2016, 9:53:44 PM
Those are the only that kill you. With my previous computer, I would systematically skip Rogue Exile strongboxes, as they often cause a deadly lag. Detonate dead strongboxes can be quite dangerous too. Plus, if you are a little bit too glass-canon-ish, getting accidentally stuck inside a mob can prove deadly. I don't think he switches for every strongbox, but it really isn't weird that he'd switch for the most dangerous ones. Not everyone uses a super-tank build like mine that can blindly open rare strongboxes. Plus, even a 1% chance to get killed is too big a risk.
Posted by
Deleted
on Apr 14, 2016, 11:14:56 PM
' Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content. 
Exactly, usually you will survive that if you decently geared. But.
The reason I do this is because of the small 1-5% chance of 'wtf thing' that might actually come close to kill me/or really kill me. I am a HDD user, so Strongbox will always create at least some small lag spike.
It is just me being way too careful. I have 3 yolo lvl 90s to use, why not use it? It is only took a few seconds to relog. I usually clear the map first then relog open strongbox/ + kill boss. So it is only 1 relog per map, not much of a hassle compared to losing 10%
This is how the exp penalty system has fail. I am just adapting myself around the system, but IMO I just feel that this isnt the play-style it should have been. Whatever, if GGG dont want to change, I change myself. 
'goetzjam wrote:
 I mean the only strongboxes that really kill are ones that you refuse to move out of the way of, like ice nova and poison cloud. 
that is still 5% chance you fail to blink arrow due to lag spike. My ranger is almost never within melee range of a huge pack of monster. 
Last edited by Darkkrows on Apr 15, 2016, 3:04:06 AM
Posted by
Darkkrows
on Apr 15, 2016, 3:03:25 AM
Report Forum Post

' When GGG indicates in every single QA thread that they are happy with the penalty that indicates there will not be any changes. Just fyi they did change it in the past from 15% to 10, they've already made it less punishing then it was, no need to push your luck any further. the thing is the simple system like this are punishing players on something that they cannot control such as lag or they happen to get caught in a 2 damage that 1 shot them. The current system punish the player but it did not encourage the player to get back out there tor regain their exp. If you actually read my exp pool regain suggestion, it only punish the glass cannon who are dying too much, not players who rarely die. That system punish player on death, but it also reward players to get back out there to get their exp back. that idea is actually come from an old MMO-RPG game called Anarchy Online. In that game if you die you lose the entire bar of your unsave exp. But in that game, player wouldnt care much about taking risk, doing risky boss because they knew can regain back later. I once lost 90% of my exp on a single dead, I couldnt care much because the next each monster I kill I will get 50% more exp as long I wont die too again until I got all my exp back. The current POE exp penalty system? I have seen many players quit because they died at 90+, lost hours of work just like that. The game punish you on death but it did not reward you for getting back into fight + survive without dying. Exp penalty on 90+ is soo harmful that during maping, I end-up doing boss on my lvl 90 'yolo' ranger instead of my lvling 95 ranger who is obviously much stronger geared. But I still couldnt risk that there will be a small 5% chance 'wtf thing' that could kill me. So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous.	Posted by Darkkrows on Apr 14, 2016, 2:44:35 AM
The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches.	Posted by Raudram on Apr 14, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
' Hi guys! I was thinking yesterday. what if there was a way to earn back a portion of the exp lost when we die? Like instead of losing 2 bars due to a lag spike (which im not complaining by any means, its just part of the game from time to time), what if we could run back to where we died and once we are either like within a close radius to our body or hit an item/object signaling that its our corpse, it would give us back like 75% of the exp we lost. 10% seems like a moderately harsh penalty, and i'm only level 84. But being less than half a bar from leveling and then dc'ing to death, I just was thinking about it and wanted to share. The other reason I mention it is because prior to me coming back to PoE the other week (was gone for a lil over a year, left midway through warbands I think), I had picked up the game Grim Dawn to see what it was, and they had this exact mechanic in it, and I actually loved it. Sadly though, the game has no actual endgame content (only 2 areas that you can repeatedly pretty much haha), so once you max out at level 85, you have to make a new char or switch games. There were actually some really cool mechanics inside Grim Dawn, and I think if PoE dev's reached out to Grim Dawn Dev's, they could work together to greatly improve some aspects of both games. I honestly feel like if PoE had Grim Dawn's atmosphere and combat feel, or Grim Dawn had PoE's type of endgame content, that game (the joining of two awesome ARPGs) would be like the Neo of ARPG's. It would truly be, the chosen one. What do you guys think? :) all positive and/or negative feedback is appreciated!! cheers and have an awesome day gents Think what it is like at level 93! :P Honestly, the penalty is a barier that keeps you from leveling higher, than you skill allows you to. The better you get, the higher you can push your character. Lags, crashes and DCs are a thing, sadly. :v There is no way to detect if you died to your own error, or DC/lag, so it sadly needs to punish in both cases. It is what it is, and so far nobody came up with a system which has the same function (the barrier one) but at the same time removes the annoying lag/dc deaths. Also, keep in mind that not all of the content is meant to be done easily. If you want kill that one map-boss, that everyone skips (durp, Village Ruin), go for it. It creates some diversity, players have to chose, instead of taking a map, shoving it down the map device, and rolling it like every other map. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. https://joeduncan123.imgur.com https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com	Posted by Perq on Apr 14, 2016, 12:53:55 PM
Its quite funny to me some of these responses from people. ' A temp SC league without death penalties or some way to gain XP back would probably be a worthwhile experiment. It seems that at least in these forums the majority of SC players would prefer to play without penalties. Howso, considering like I've said they are happy with the penalty, what feedback are they going to get or whats the purpose of doing a league just to get confirmation on what the fact they are happy with it. Plus this no longer fits the idea that the temp SC league is identical to the temp HC league. The forums are a terrible gauge of what players want. The people that are likely vocal here are always going to be the ones more likely to complain about something then they are to say 'im happy with it' ' From my experience talking to people, all the penalty does is demoralize new players since it's linked to bad mechanics such as oneshots. This again is false, new players aren't getting 'punished' hard for their deaths because it only really becomes punishing in later levels, when they have had time to learn some of the game mechanics, like res, life, ect. Death should be something you avoid in all ARPG style games, because its an indication of an issue, either low life, low res, low dps or misplay. Yes sometimes there are issues outside of the players control, but you cant balance for those one off very rare things, if they could they could revive HC characters on deaths as well, but they don't. ' the thing is the simple system like this are punishing players on something that they cannot control such as lag or they happen to get caught in a 2 damage that 1 shot them. And this is partly likely why they reduced it from 15>10. That being said they did make massive improvements to the desync issue and introduced a method to basically bypass the issue altogether. In terms of other general lag issues, you can't balance the game for issues outside of the realm of the norm. ' The current system punish the player but it did not encourage the player to get back out there tor regain their exp. Nor should it, the game in general is punishing, your incentive to level is already there. I thought long ago back when these discussions were more common a way to recover XP would be a nice idea, but after the changes to map XP and the general power creep the players have gotten (as well has the lockstep changes) all makes this unnecessary. ' If you actually read my exp pool regain suggestion, it only punish the glass cannon who are dying too much, not players who rarely die. That system punish player on death, but it also reward players to get back out there to get their exp back. Right so it allows for careless play as long as you haven't been careless and punished for it 'recently' Its just essentially free deaths as long as you aren't doing it very often. ' The current POE exp penalty system? I have seen many players quit because they died at 90+, lost hours of work just like that. The game punish you on death but it did not reward you for getting back into fight + survive without dying. And if they quit instead of improving then they aren't 'poe material' anyway. Not a big loss. I don't quit when I lose a hc character, which is far more punishing then 10% XP. I really don't need to hear excuses about how a SC player quit after he died once. ' Exp penalty on 90+ is soo harmful that during maping, I end-up doing boss on my lvl 90 'yolo' ranger instead of my lvling 95 ranger who is obviously much stronger geared. But I still couldnt risk that there will be a small 5% chance 'wtf thing' that could kill me. Its always a play where you could have a character just to kill bosses, funny enough I did actually do this for a while, not because I cared about the XP loss but because it had very high single target DPS. In terms of risking the characters XP for the one off thing, the more you learn the game the less likely you are to die to the random things that can kill you. I would say boss fights are a perfect example of not having as much randomness to them. ' So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something? ' The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches. Yeah just like all HC characters skip anything that can kill them too s In terms of not learning because they never do it, there are many options to learn the mechanics outside of the risky hard map style 'test' People can watch videos to see the fights, people can encounter the higherharder maps in zana maps. People can run bluewhite maps instead of rares to learn. In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficientsafe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan I will not rest until fortify+pure movement skill no longer works. It has plagued this game for too long. (salt, salt everywhere)	Posted by goetzjam on Apr 14, 2016, 4:09:15 PM
' In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficientsafe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably. I noticed the same, I don't skip stuff, unless I absolutely can't deal with it but I would rather sell T14+ for a hefty amount of chaos orbs than run them, the EXP/loot rewards aren't that great.	Posted by Raudram on Apr 14, 2016, 4:41:00 PM
' ' In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficientsafe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably. I noticed the same, I don't skip stuff, unless I absolutely can't deal with it but I would rather sell T14+ for a hefty amount of chaos orbs than run them, the EXP/loot rewards aren't that great. I mean you can still get the nice bases to sell and still have a better chance at higher maps inside of a higher map (because obviously your not going to get a T13-15 in an 11, unless a rare +box and magic happens) https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan I will not rest until fortify+pure movement skill no longer works. It has plagued this game for too long. (salt, salt everywhere)	Posted by goetzjam on Apr 14, 2016, 5:25:52 PM
' ' So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something? Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content.	Posted by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016, 9:39:38 PM
' ' ' So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous. I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something? Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content. I mean the only strongboxes that really kill are ones that you refuse to move out of the way of, like ice nova and poison cloud. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan I will not rest until fortify+pure movement skill no longer works. It has plagued this game for too long. (salt, salt everywhere)	Posted by goetzjam on Apr 14, 2016, 9:53:44 PM
Those are the only that kill you. With my previous computer, I would systematically skip Rogue Exile strongboxes, as they often cause a deadly lag. Detonate dead strongboxes can be quite dangerous too. Plus, if you are a little bit too glass-canon-ish, getting accidentally stuck inside a mob can prove deadly. I don't think he switches for every strongbox, but it really isn't weird that he'd switch for the most dangerous ones. Not everyone uses a super-tank build like mine that can blindly open rare strongboxes. Plus, even a 1% chance to get killed is too big a risk.	Posted by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016, 11:14:56 PM
' Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content. Exactly, usually you will survive that if you decently geared. But. The reason I do this is because of the small 1-5% chance of 'wtf thing' that might actually come close to kill me/or really kill me. I am a HDD user, so Strongbox will always create at least some small lag spike. It is just me being way too careful. I have 3 yolo lvl 90s to use, why not use it? It is only took a few seconds to relog. I usually clear the map first then relog open strongbox/ + kill boss. So it is only 1 relog per map, not much of a hassle compared to losing 10% This is how the exp penalty system has fail. I am just adapting myself around the system, but IMO I just feel that this isnt the play-style it should have been. Whatever, if GGG dont want to change, I change myself. ' goetzjam wrote: I mean the only strongboxes that really kill are ones that you refuse to move out of the way of, like ice nova and poison cloud. that is still 5% chance you fail to blink arrow due to lag spike. My ranger is almost never within melee range of a huge pack of monster. Last edited by Darkkrows on Apr 15, 2016, 3:04:06 AM	Posted by Darkkrows on Apr 15, 2016, 3:03:25 AM